Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

Rating System/Problem/Example

3 messages in this thread | Started on 2004-01-15

Rating System/Problem/Example

From: Gwen & Don Jackson (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) | Date: 2004-01-15 09:20:34 UTC-08:00
I figured that I would offer this up as an example as to the difficulty of rating systems. If you go to these clues and read them correctly you will not need to read the note added on 6/9/2003. The note was added after a finder was hurt looking for the letterbox. I did not change the original clues only added the note. While clarifying the clues to almost the ridiculous most of the clarification wouldn't be necessary if one read the clues carefully.This letterbox has been hunted by parents with small children quite safely and successfully. On a numbered rating scale this would be rated easy by me yet someone was hurt there. How then can a rating scale assure that a finder reads clues properly? In case you can not access the listed address listed below just go to California, area 7, Millard Falls in Pasadena.
Don

http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.asp?boxnum=3153&boxname=Millard_Falls

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Re: Rating System/Problem/Example

From: pandora Taleon (hispandora@phlsystems.com) | Date: 2004-01-15 20:21:23 UTC
Good Day Everyone,

I think the example Don gave paints a wonderful picture and gives a
wonderful example of EXACTLY WHY a rating system such as this would
be most beneficial. Before I begin however, let me step back in time
a little. You see, I was the letter boxer that got hurt on the
letterbox given as an example. (Thank you Don for so nicely for
leaving my name out as you smacked me in the face it was much more
impersonal that way).

Back in May of 2003 I had JUST begun letterboxing. I had started in
February when visiting Iron`Bear in Portland Oregon and found myself
amazed by how fun and exciting it was. Now quite honestly, I have no
fears or concerns about just about anything with Iron`Bear around,
those of you that have met us probably understand why, those females
that have letterboxed with us usually feel the same way. I would be
comfortable attempting almost any letterbox or hike with him there.
When I returned to California in March I wanted to continue
letterboxing. I was completely inexperienced with the outdoors, with
hiking in general, and quite frankly I approached the hobby as a neat
thing to do that got me some exercise and assisted my weight loss.
Over the course of the next three months I letterboxed a bit around
the San Louis Obispo area, I was letterboxing with a local group of
friends that had just too discovered the hobby and we were mainly
tracking down "Easy" Ryan Carpenter Boxes (Boxes Ryan had planted in
the area with the hopes of doing exactly what he did, drawing in new
letter boxers.) and planting our own boxes which we would then let
the others in our group hunt for. So obviously at this point, I
still really didn't have any experience notches on my hiking stick, I
didn't even have a hiking stick yet.

I admittedly made a lot of errors on this hike and read the clues
incorrectly. I took the "easy, about mile of boulder hopping and
creek crossings to the foot of the falls" and read it as a mile
hike. Granted my mistake, however if you look around you will see
that most letter boxers, and even most hikers for that matter, give a
total round trip distance. So I falsely assumed this was the case
and the hike was actually mile round trip. My other major mistake
where the clues were concerned was that since the clues told you to
cross a creek I took the "boulder hoping and creek crossing" to mean
large rocks that I would be sort of hopping from one to the next,
(not step sized rocks that were wet from the water) and I expect to
cross the creek once or twice maybe, not be traveling back and forth
across the creek the entire time. Again this was my own mistake and
lack of experience. The fact that I was new, trying to squeeze
several boxes in one day (which we are all guilty of) and a totally
inexperienced hiker lacking the basic things I needed like a good
flash light, a first aid kit, and the common sense to not start a
hike with only an hour before sundown was surely the primary mistake
in my whole adventure and what no doubt ended up getting me hurt.

But you see this is exactly my point. Because the number of people
participating in this hobby grows and grows so to do the numbers of
people who are just like me back then, completely inexperienced. It
is for those very people that I think such a system would work and be
beneficial.

Don's example here is that he would rate this box easy, that Ann
Marie Brown rated the hike easy. While I personally even looking
back would not rate the hike easy. I would rate the box average.
But what I would rate the box is insignificant here and if there were
a standardized rating system involved what Don would rate the box
would be insignificant also. Because using a system neither of us
has to worry about what the other considers easy. Using this box as
an example, I (now a more experienced letter boxer) used Silent
Doug's letterboxing rating guide. According to that guideline this
specific letterbox would have received the following rating:

Difficulty rating: 2 Average. The average letter boxer would be able
to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.
Terrain rating: 4 Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is
probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very
heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or
more than a 5-mile round-trip hike. May require an overnight stay.)

This is a good example of why I think the rating system needs some
work I don't think the Terrain on this letterbox is THAT hard, I
would have given it a 3 perhaps but that is my opinion.
Regardless, of what either Don or I think though, had I had this tool
as a inexperienced letter boxers, I think I would have had a much
better idea of what I needed to be prepared for the hike. Granted I
would have been way over prepared, but I think that is better than
the alternative.

I reiterate that I really do understand the sentiment here, but the
fact of the matter is that experienced letter boxers probably won't
pay that much attention to such ratings anyways unless they are
taking along children or have someone in their letterboxing party
that is disabled or incapable of strenuous hikes.

I sort of see this whole think similar to Iron`Bear and I going to
the gym. We lift weights. Iron`Bear might lift something that is
easy for him and I go to the same machine and can't even move the
handlebars. Well he just lifted 300lbs! That was easy? For him it
sure was! But he will set the weights at 50lbs for me. We each have
different abilities and capabilities. I think giving someone an idea
of what is ahead of them in this manner is simply as kind and
generous as it is for Iron`Bear to change the weights on the machine
so that I can lift them is.

I bid you all well,
pandora{I`B}

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Re: Rating System/Problem/Example

From: Gwen and Don Jackson (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) | Date: 2004-01-15 17:16:16 UTC-08:00




I believe phantom phiddler missed the point. Pandora, I'm sure feels blessed, if not for her escape from that canyon, then for her recent nuptials. She also has expressed and acknowledged her responsibility for her choices. I used the example only to point out the problems inherent in a rating system . I'm sure Pandora rehashed her tribulations for her point of view as well. Rating systems to be effective have to be dumbed down for the least proficient hiker/finder(no slur intended), etc., and yet final responsibility still rests with the hiker/finder. I have been white water rafting for over 27 years from Canada to Costa Rica and that sport has a rating system. I do not rely on any rating of ANY rapids or rivers. I use my own judgment and scout unknown rapids. To do less would place my family and myself at risk. Regardless if a rating system is used for letterboxes or not, the environment can be altered by weather, darkness, heat, cold and thus totally alter and change a letterbox's rating. I believe to attempt a rating system is flawed from the start and could give someone a false sense of security. What is wrong with using "Contact Placer"? If you have questions about a hike or need other information why not just communicate with the placer directly if you think there wasn't sufficient information in their clues? How about posting a question on this list?
Don

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